Canada Post a sinking ship?

[Veloo]

Hard to think a developed western nation could end up without a national postal service.
But that is a lotta money to be losing.

What's on the horizon for my future bike stuff shipments?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...2023-1.7193944

[prototoast]

Doesn't strike me as that bad. Canada is a country of close to 40 million people. That deficit only amounts to about $20 per person per year, which doesn't strike me as an unreasonable subsidy to maintain a national postal service.

[Alistair]

Do European nations expect their post services to be profit centers, or is that a uniquely N American thing? Strikes me as a bit silly - why must mail be self-sufficient but not the armed forces? Both seem critical to maintaining a stable democracy.

[Quadzilla_Jr]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Do European nations expect their post services to be profit centers, or is that a uniquely N American thing? Strikes me as a bit silly - why must mail be self-sufficient but not the armed forces? Both seem critical to maintaining a stable democracy.

I've never understood this, either. Federal mail is a utility, not a business. It is vital and necessary for our society and should be funded to whatever level is needed for it to be successful.

I don't think anyone clamoring for USPS (or any other government-provided postal service) to be profitable would like to pay for the postage that allows said service to "operate in the black."

[tellyho]

But we believe that everything should be improved by capitalism! Clearly health care and education are better when run for profit.

[krooj]

Man, I feel for people that that buy/sell/ship online from Canada, cause you get hosed coming and going. UPS and FedEx tack on arbitrary brokerage fees and make international shipments eye-wateringly expensive. Canada Post is shockingly slow and very, very expensive, so really, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it's bad for everyone that wants to do business. This is a common pattern for Canada, though: lots of gatekeeping without many alternatives, and you can see it in their telcos, banks, etc. It's a bad enough situation that Verizon, of all companies, noped the hell out of expanding into the market.

Having been born and raised in Toronto and experiencing both USPS and Canada Post first hand, give me USPS any day of the week. Maybe it's because we're near a major hub (SF), but it's terrifying how quick the postal service is, especially when you're within CA itself.

But I 100% agree that the notion of a national postal carrier as a profit center is ludicrous.

[bicycletricycle]

Governments are so bad at just about everything right now. It would be funny if it wasn’t such a disaster.

If you are part of an organization that can’t go out of business, prints its own money and rewards failure, well, why would you do a good job?

[Davist]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Do European nations expect their post services to be profit centers, or is that a uniquely N American thing? Strikes me as a bit silly - why must mail be self-sufficient but not the armed forces? Both seem critical to maintaining a stable democracy.

Not sure but I thought postal was supposed to be a "black zero" not a profit. To the armed forces question, for a REALLY scary point, we pay more in interest now than the entire budget of the armed forces in US, over $1T/year. (graphic from visual capitalist) Nearly double since 19 and make no mistake BOTH of the ossified political parties are to blame...

[Alistair]

Net zero or profit, makes no difference. Getting post to remote locations isn’t cost effective. If we want that, we need a public postal service. Heck, our constitution even calls that out as a job congress must do! (In the US)

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Governments are so bad at just about everything right now. It would be funny if it wasn’t such a disaster.

If you are part of an organization that can’t go out of business, prints its own money and rewards failure, well, why would you do a good job?

Governments often aren't the best at efficient operations, but their involvement is often necessary to organize and democratize community services. Think of this:

If mail delivery was totally private, then there might be multiple companies providing the same service. If that there the case, then there could be duplicate delivery infrastructure, particularly in the most active regions, which might not the best use of resources. Worse (and the reason that national postal services exist) is that private companies may not provide any service at all in less lucrative areas, if they found it less profitable. Or they might simply charge much higher rates for more remote areas.

The reason national post offices exists is to promote business, trade and community service. With the USPS, anyone can send a written communication from anywhere in the US to anywhere else in the US, all for the same cost, regardless of where the two locations are. You can't any more democratic than that.

Boston comedian Jimmy Tingle used to to have a bit about people who complained about the cost of USPS postage not appreciating how good they have it. He would say, "Think oof this: A man will come to your house and pick up a letter, and delivery to another house anywhere else in the country, all for just 68 cents. You can't get a 3 year old to lick the stamp for 68 cents."

[Erikg]

$748m isn't bad compared to the $6.5b USPS lost in 2023 and the $6.3b it's projected to lose in 2024.

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/nati...23-results.htm

https://www.govexec.com/management/2...0fiscal%202024.

Costs a dollar to mail a letter across the country, that doesn't sound sustainable in today's dollars.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Governments are so bad at just about everything right now. It would be funny if it wasn’t such a disaster.

If you are part of an organization that can’t go out of business, prints its own money and rewards failure, well, why would you do a good job?

Wow.
The USPS is a common target for some and while criticism is justified in various instances, blanket disdain like what is in your post is over the top.

- It has been shown, many times over, that mail service essentially wouldn't exist in many parts of the US if it were privitized.

- The USPS has had to fund retirement Healthcare differently from gvt agencies. This isn't their choice, it's mandated, and it created deficits that some then jumped on to criticize. https://news.nd.edu/news/postal-serv...s-expert-says/
I think this was from 2006 thru 2022.

- The USPS doesnt't get to set all it's rates and is legally required to service some business that is a financial loss for them.

- Mail delivery is a service. It doesn't need to be a profit center. Nobody questions why the Military lost $820 BILLION last year because it's a service.
It's great when service costs can be partially or even fully offset by public use, but not fully offsetting costs doesn't mean the program/department is a waste and it doesn't mean there is no incentive to do a good job.
I am so tired of reading and hearing complaints about how services are a financial drain. Parks, schools, mail, military, police, fire, libraries, etc- these are services and shouldn't need to show a profit to exist.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

Wow.
The USPS is a common target for some and while criticism is justified in various instances, blanket disdain like what is in your post is over the top.

- It has been shown, many times over, that mail service essentially wouldn't exist in many parts of the US if it were privitized.

- The USPS has had to fund retirement Healthcare differently from gvt agencies. This isn't their choice, it's mandated, and it created deficits that some then jumped on to criticize. https://news.nd.edu/news/postal-serv...s-expert-says/
I think this was from 2006 thru 2022.

- The USPS doesnt't get to set all it's rates and is legally required to service some business that is a financial loss for them.

- Mail delivery is a service. It doesn't need to be a profit center. Nobody questions why the Military lost $820 BILLION last year because it's a service.
It's great when service costs can be partially or even fully offset by public use, but not fully offsetting costs doesn't mean the program/department is a waste and it doesn't mean there is no incentive to do a good job.
I am so tired of reading and hearing complaints about how services are a financial drain. Parks, schools, mail, military, police, fire, libraries, etc- these are services and shouldn't need to show a profit to exist.

Throw in the public service programs that USPS participates in on the plus side--like their Passport office service. I suspect there is some form of compensation from Homeland to USPS, but I suspect it is nowhere close the real cost in time and patience that my local USPS workers show when shepherding young families through the process of getting passport applications done.

[bikeboy1]

Oh no how will I get all that junk mail now. I use Can Post whenever I can but I believe that Purolator works with Can Post offering the same service and when there is an option I will use Purolator. Our gov supports CBC which makes me scratch my head for the most part but I would think our Postal should have more priority than CBC for support. I hope they get better support from our gov.