OT: Need advice on dealing with unreasonable attorney fees

[iamconfused]

Long time user here... posting on my burner account in order to remain anonymous...

I hate to have to ask here, but I love you guys, and maybe someone has been in a similar situation and can shed some light on what I can do here...

Long story short, im in the middle of a divorce, and I just fired my second attorney (who im referring to in this post). Right before I let him go, I got an invoice for past services. Here's the run-down:

-Hired this guy in January to take over my first attorney. Paid his $7,500 retainer.

-Got a bill mid-March. The date-range for this bill was 2/13 - 3/07 and the total amount was $4,400, which depleted my retainer, so after retainer was exhausted, I owed $1,900. So im in with this guy at this point for $9,400..

-A fact I think is relevant.. on Tax Day, I let my attorney know that i needed to sell my car in order to pay a huge(almost 5-figure) IRS bill due to getting screwed over by my soon-to-be-ex-wife. A few days later, i got a call from my lawyer talking briefly about the case, and then he mentioned that he has been meaning to send over a billing invoice.. I was confused and said I had just paid him the $1,900 from the invoice a month ago. He said he'll get back to me.

-Toward the end of April, I got this invoice.... over $10,000... date range was 3/12 - 4/09... granted we did have to go to court for pre-trial; that was $2140 plus a $9 travel fee... the rest of the line items have vague descriptions like "Contact with counsel", "Contact with client", "Follow up with x". "Prepare", etc... stated 6 line items which included some form of "Preparing for pre-trial" totaling to almost $6k (almost 10 hours billed for pre-trial prep)

My ex/her attorney are being super stubborn and completely unreasonable and my attorney didnt seem too confident about what to do. He only was sure that I "do not want to go to trial", even though I told him that mediation will not work with my ex(I have reasons)....

So I suspect what happened was, he knew I was in a tough place with having to sell my car to pay the IRS, and he threw out this ridiculous bill to me in order to scare me into settling in to the opposing-counsel's unreasonable proposal for resolution... Thats all i could think of... he didn't give me any real warning that a huge bill was coming at all.

To put things in perspective, I had my first attorney($400/hr) for 6 months and he's who filed for my divorce and did all sorts of the initial paperwork and whatnot. In 6 months, i spent $10k on him, and that includes us going to the court one day for almost the same amount of time I was at pre-trial with my second lawyer.. This second attorney($595/hr), I had for roughly 3 months, and after this bill, im at almost $20k!

Is this real life? What can I do to fight this??

[fourflys]

I don't have an answer for you, but just wanted to say I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

Positive thoughts for you!

[tomato coupe]

The fees don't seem unreasonable at $400 - $600 per hour.

[AngryScientist]

The one thing I learned through some real estate dealings is to find an attorney with a good paralegal.

Usually the attorney will bill out at a big hourly fee, but the paralegal will bill out much less, and does the bulk majority of the day to day work, saving a ton of money.

With regard to the bill you already racked up, without hiring another attorney to fight that bill, I doubt there is going to be much you can do to get out of it; especially since you just fired him, he's unlikely to have any sympathy for you and cut you a deal.

Really sucks though, I feel terrible anyone has to go through this and literally be drained of money. Makes buying a custom Firefly look like a bargain.

Hang in there pal.

[bigbill]

I went through it in 2018. We stayed civil while we were working with attorneys. I offered a reasonable amount of spousal support, not the max, but the offer was based on filing uncontested which prevented additional attorney costs. There were some uncivil moments, but I muscled through. I ended up paying for her move which was around $5k. No child support since our son was 18 and heading to the Naval Academy. In the end, the attorney was $2850 because of the uncontested agreement, and I paid another $8000ish to finish everything out. It was a good investment allowing me to get on with my life.

[XXtwindad]

This is not my area of expertise, and I’m actually thankful to have no firsthand experience in this realm. But I am also confused. From your prior posts, it doesn’t appear you have children with your ex. Why is spousal support necessary?

[iamconfused]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

This is not my area of expertise, and I’m actually thankful to have no firsthand experience in this realm. But I am also confused. From your prior posts, it doesn’t appear you have children with your ex. Why is spousal support necessary?

She claims she cant work anymore due to medical reasons, even though she actually can.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by iamconfused

She claims she cant work anymore due to medical reasons, even though she actually can.

Well, what does that have to do with you? I don’t mean to be rude or overly probing, but it doesn’t seem at all clear to me.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Well, what does that have to do with you? I don’t mean to be rude or overly probing, but it doesn’t seem at all clear to me.

That's what he needs a lawyer for.

[benb]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Well, what does that have to do with you? I don’t mean to be rude or overly probing, but it doesn’t seem at all clear to me.

This is not that novel of a play. My old manager at a previous job was in a position where he and his wife made similar money so the divorce should have been relatively quick and easy and no one should have taken a huge bath other than fighting over the kids.

But she had survived cancer, and in the divorce tried to get herself declared disabled so he would have to support her and she'd get a huge pay day.

He won, and got 100% custody of the kids, she was declared not disabled, but I think he spent north of $100k+ on legal fees easily to get there. One factor there is she had cheated and that is what led to the divorce.

He should be retired by now, he's probably working long enough maybe I end up working with him again.

[DeBike]

I find it a bit unreasonable to post on a bicycling forum looking for advice on how to stiff a lawyer in a contested divorce case. Not sure if advice is being sought, or if it’s merely a rant by the op.
I am pretty sure there is more than one other version of this tale.

[Mr. Pink]

Man rule #7: Always, always get a pre nup.

https://youtu.be/o5z8-9Op2nM?si=QVM-9pQlX97LZxJB

[GregL]

Without commenting on the OP's specific circumstances, I can state from recent experience that an amicable, uncontested divorce can still be frustratingly expensive. My ex-wife and I went the collaboration route for our divorce in 2022. Even with no significant disagreements, it still cost me ~$10K. A few things I learned during the process:

- Never let the attorney's just "march ahead" and make decisions for you. We had to deal with untangling 32 years of shared finances. Whenever we hit a roadblock, the attorneys wanted to convene another negotiating session. My ex and I quickly saw that this would only cost us more $$. We sat down without the attorneys and came up with agreements on the finances. Once we were in agreement, we then told the attorneys what we wanted to execute. I understand that this only works if both parties can have a civil, rational discussion...

- Every time you text or e-mail the attorneys, the meter is running. Make sure that you have done all the necessary prep work before engaging your attorney in any discussion/correspondence.

- Know your finances inside and out before the divorce process. This includes knowing the policies of any financial institutions that you will need to involve in the divorce process. The company that handles the majority of my retirement portfolio has very specific policies for Qualified Domestic Relations Orders (QDROs). If the QDRO isn't aligned with their policies, you could spend months and thousands of dollars separating finances. In my case, I told the attorneys to stand down and reached out to the financial company directly. I got written guidelines for the QDRO and dictated the wording to my attorney. This saved me thousands in legal fees AND got the QDRO executed and approved very quickly.

Good luck to the OP! Divorce proceedings are the colonoscopy of personal legalities. The best you can hope for is a pain in the a-- and minimal $$ spent.

Greg

[glepore]

I did law for 30ish years. I can say with certainty that no one here can tell you whether 10 hours to prepare for a pretrial hearing/conference is reasonable or not unless they had an understanding of the jurisdiction- not just the state, but the county, and what is normally done at such a proceeding. Its different everywhere. If significant issues involved and actual decisions made, then not suspect. If scheduling and evidence stuff, probably suspect. But again, I wouldn't guess which.

Sounds like a) you live in a place with a very high cost of living, based on those fees or b) you have very significant assets to protect and a hotly contested divorce. Those hourly rates are up there. Are you dealing with a partner level guy at "the" domestic firm in your area?

Most county bar associations have a fee dispute committee that will arbitrate these sort of things, but, as you might expect, there is a level of benefit of doubt given to the bar member.

And yes, each time you change atty's you're likely going to have some fee duplication due to file review. Like maybe 25% or higher.

This thread is a perfect example of why all of this stuff needs to be hashed out well in advance of retaining a professional.

[ariw]

Divorce sucks, I just finalized mine last fall, over 2 years after separation. My ex fought every step of the way, much to her eventual financial detriment. My attorney estimated that she spent $100K+ between attorney and accountant fees. My expenses were far, far less than that.

As others have pointed out, you should carefully manage your attorney's time. This means asking if a paralegal can address an issue/question/task, as well as preparing your communications (usually emails) so that they are organized and documented in a way that allows them to work on your case efficiently. When it comes to phone calls, stay focused on the specific issues that you and they have planned to address and don't be afraid to tell them that you are trying to save money by minimizing their time on certain tasks. Also, regularly ask them what you can do to assist in terms of providing documentation, talking to third parties, etc. I was like a broken record with this issue, something that my attorney and I were able to laugh about.

Finally, one of the best things that my attorney did for me was set reasonable expectations for what could be achieved at various stages. This made decision-making much easier overall and reduced some of the emotional burden. If this isn't happening, you may need to push your attorney in this area.

Good luck, there is a light at the end of tunnel.