OT: California Dreamin': Density is the Future.

[Mike V]

Must have not been built to code. Six feet minimum between wall. Where in OC?

Originally Posted by GregL

My best friend from college moved to Orange County in the mid-90s. I visited him a year or two later. His lawn was so small, it could be mowed with a scissors. If he wanted to get a neighbor’s attention, he just had to open a side window and knock on the wall of the house next door. Worse from my perspective, the traffic and road infrastructure were horrible for road cycling. He tried his best to convince me to move west and work with him, but no way I could deal with CA. Upstate NY may have snow and ridiculous taxes, but the life experience is so much more peaceful. I can leave my home or office by bike and be on quiet, rural roads in 5-15 minutes. Priceless!

Greg

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Mike V

Must have not been built to code. Six feet minimum between wall. Where in OC?

Hyperbole for emphasis. A quick look on Google Street View shows ~8-10 feet between homes on his street. Still way too close for my comfort.

Greg

[bicycletricycle]

High density life is low quality life.

[pdonk]

As a recovering public sector planner who is now a developer that works in a Growth Plan context, all I can say is Greenfield density minimums and a greenbelt has increased land value exponentially during the past 15 years in the toronto area.

Combine that constraint with a consumer that does not want density and prefers granite counter tops to energy-efficient upgrades and you have a perfect storm for prices going crazy.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

High density life is low quality life.

That type of thinking has yielded catastrophic results.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ange-nightmare

[jds108]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

That type of thinking has yielded catastrophic results.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ange-nightmare

Except that article's premise has nothing to back up the author's opinion. It's also entirely possible that CA's forest fires are mostly due to poor or nonexistent forestry management. I'd say they're cleary due to the combination of draught and mismanagement, neither of which have anything to do with population density.

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by jds108

Except that article's premise has nothing to back up the author's opinion. It's also entirely possible that CA's forest fires are mostly due to poor or nonexistent forestry management. I'd say they're cleary due to the combination of draught and mismanagement, neither of which have anything to do with population density.

Forest fires are a combination of mismanagement but more importantly drought caused by climate change. The Camp Fire of 2018, one of the two most costly in CA history, was caused by PG&E equipment that the company had failed to improve. PG&E was found responsible but only paid out a tiny fraction of the cost. (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/16/87900...rted-that-fire)

The losses in dollar amounts are caused by population densification at the forest along rural, suburban, and urban interfaces. In fact, I was on a call two weeks ago where one of California's leading insurers said that California is basically uninsurable with respect to fire. That person was talking about homes, mainly, but also other structures. Paradise will not be rebuilt without additional safety measures in place.

[buddybikes]

Society needs to encourage "growth" doesn't equal more people. We need as a global society to breed less people. Otherwise our children or children's children are in a massive boatload of problems which we see the beginnings of

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

Society needs to encourage "growth" doesn't equal more people. We need as a global society to breed less people. Otherwise our children or children's children are in a massive boatload of problems which we see the beginnings of

I agree with you, Thanos.
(Jesting aside, I do.)

Originally Posted by tctyres

In fact, I was on a call two weeks ago where one of California's leading insurers said that California is basically uninsurable with respect to fire. That person was talking about homes, mainly, but also other structures.

Interesting; two weeks ago I received a letter from my home insurance company informing me that they are adding, at no cost to me, wildfire protection (there is zero probability that a wildfire would ever reach my house); I had to send a letter to opt out of this coverage, which I did since there was so much mealy-mouthed language in the coverage that it was clear that even in the infinitesimally small chance that a wildfire reached my home they/their contracted provider would never show up. I assumed that some regulatory change may have prompted this letter but I'm just guessing.

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Interesting; two weeks ago I received a letter from my home insurance company informing me that they are adding, at no cost to me, wildfire protection (there is zero probability that a wildfire would ever reach my house); I had to send a letter to opt out of this coverage, which I did since there was so much mealy-mouthed language in the coverage that it was clear that even in the infinitesimally small chance that a wildfire reached my home they/their contracted provider would never show up. I assumed that some regulatory change may have prompted this letter but I'm just guessing.

Oh, that's super interesting. Yeah, regulatory in some weird way. I'll tell you what I know the next time I go climbing with you.

If your house or my apartment burns from wildfire, the city has bigger problems. For the people in the canyons, that's a risk they take. My ex lived in the evacuation zone for the Getty Fire two years ago. I wound up going to a local store and ran into a woman from Mandeville Canyon who could remember the last time things burned. Her house was at risk, again.

[verticaldoug]

The hard stuff hasn't even started yet. I wonder where on the California coast, they will be able to build a desalination plant.

[pdonk]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

The hard stuff hasn't even started yet. I wonder where on the California coast, they will be able to build a desalination plant.

Likely nowhere, if the people who promote densification have their way. I can only nightmarishingly imagine the EA process for one.

On my previous post I forgot something, don't tell me I can't have or want what you have unless you are willing to give up yours for the greater good. I’ve had that conversation a few times at public meetings about growth.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

The hard stuff hasn't even started yet. I wonder where on the California coast, they will be able to build a desalination plant.

Nuke plants and desalination or bust.
Probably bust.

But the weather is nice……

[woodworker]

Already one (desal plant) in Carlsbad. There will have to be others, combined with environmental mitigation measures. On the other hand, the one nuke plant in the area, at San Onofre, has now been shut down.

[joosttx]

At this moment of this intellectual stimulating thread, might I suggest everyone to reread "Cadillac Desert"